Protect and Defend

Welcome to my blog, Protect and Defend. You don’t have to understand me. You only have to agree with me. I can live with losing the good fight, but I can not live with not fighting that good fight at all. - Publius

Tuesday, July 25, 2006

NumbersUSA announcement

This was from an email I received from NumbersUSA, if you have not gone to their website yet and learned more about the organization, I ENCOURAGE you to take a look:

Rep. Pence (R-IN) has finally announced the specifics of a House bill that he has been threatening to offer for weeks. And Sen. Hutchison (R-TX) announced she will introduce it in the Senate.
There is not yet a bill number.
The major news media are touting it as an inspired breakthrough that will allow the Senate (which passed a virtually open-borders bill) and the House (which passed an enforcement-only bill) to compromise.
The basic outline of a very complicated bill is this:
1. Most of the 12 million illegal aliens would be legalized, allowed to work and live in the U.S. for the rest of their lives as long as they can find a job.
2. In order to be allowed to do this, the illegal aliens would have to go across the U.S. borders to specialized centers run by private industries which would run the security checks on the aliens before they would take up their legal residence.
3. The illegal aliens would, thus, have their status laundered from illegal alien to legal guestworker and could renew their residency/work visas every two years. They could go back home for awhile and come back later, if they wanted. Once they accumulated 17 years of work, they could become U.S. citizens.
4. The amnesty/guestworker program would not start until after at least two years of increasing border security and some other enforcement measures.

Bill is not a rational compromise -- but it is rational enough to pose a danger of passing.
This plan is indeed between the highly rational, sober-minded HR-4437 passed by the House and the almost-insane open-borders S. 2611 passed by the Senate.
But the fact that it would not totally transform America and virtually surrender its sovereignty -- like the Senate bill -- does not mean it is a rational compromise.
At least it is not a rational compromise if you believe that illegal aliens should not be rewarded for their crimes by offering them permanent residency and U.S. citizenship .... and if you believe that Americans should not be saddled with the continuing tax subsidies for these mostly low-wage foreign workers..... and if you don't believe the federal government should be using immigration to further congest the already overcrowded cities and urban regions of our nation.
Speaker of the House Hastert (R-IL) and Senate Majority Leader Frist (R-TN) have already indicated that they think there is a lot of merit in the Pence-Hutchison bill and appreciate the efforts for a positive compromise.
There are indications that this bill is going to be championed by the Wall Street Journal and other promoters of a new Robber Baron era of unlimited, cheap foreign labor and depressed American wages.
The White House has indicated a lot of enthusiasm for this bill.

News reports quote both Pence and Hutchison as saying that their challenge in forming their bill was to find a way to keep most of the illegal aliens working in the U.S. without it being called an amnesty... they have come up with a lot of maneuvers to "launder" the illegal aliens status so that when they get citizenship they won't at that time be illegal.
But the effect is that the only way you apparently can get into this program is to prove that you have broken immigration laws.
Once you prove you are an illegal alien and find an employer willing to hire you (presumably your old employer who also has been breaking the law for years by hiring you then), then you get the reward of legal residency and work…
Pence and Hutchison make a lot about the fact that there is no automatic citizenship and that a person has to wait 17 years instead of the usual five…
About the only thing under this bill that will keep an illegal alien from staying here the rest of their lives is if they decide on their own to move back to their home country.
By providing a path to U.S. citizenship for illegal aliens, Pence and Hutchison have provided an incredible reward for illegal aliens, regardless of how many years it might take for them to get the citizenship.
But keeping the illegal aliens on a short-leash with two-year renewals allows their employers to have a lot of control over them, turning them into something like indentured servants.
This country outlawed indentured servanthood in the 19th century because (1) it created a kind of sub-worker class open to harsh exploitation and (2) it dragged down wages and working conditions for regular American workers.
This bill assumes that Americans and legal resident aliens who currently work in construction, health care, food handling, hospitality and other occupations where employers are clamoring for foreign workers make too much money right now. The bill assumes that there is a need for massive numbers of foreign workers to help hold wages down for the legal workers who also are in those occupations.

The Pence-Hutchison bill should be called the Return to the Robber Baron Era Act…


Blogger Wadical said...

We've become a nation of spineless pushovers. Bullied into offering appeasement to everyone, from Islam to illegal immigrants. Too few people on the hill are willing to fight the fight. Maybe it's because they're not really public servants after all. Appeasement has never gotten us anything but the short end of the stick. Rewarding criminals...yeah, there's a plan.

Wed Jul 26, 12:57:00 PM  
Blogger mistyforeverlost said...

I have a theory on this and I may be really off base. But think about all the illegal aliens who work in this country doing jobs that American's simply do not want to do for a low pay. deport them back to the country they came from and woo-lah....nobody picking the peaches or scrubbing the toilets.

It's just a way to protect corporate America and it makes my stomach turn. What's the purpose of protecting our borders if we are just going to allow them to break the law and apply for work visa's?

I'm not one to yell SEND HIM HOME THE ILLEGAL INGRATES! I think there CAN be some sort of compromise whilst making sure they are fined or SOMETHING for coming here illegally to begin with.

This? Seems ridiculous.

Wed Jul 26, 01:26:00 PM  
Blogger Wadical said...

I disagree. My theory is different. Send them back where they came from and voila now peach pickers and toilet scrubbers go from making less than the legal minimum wage to making above minimum wage and voila again, all of a sudden, Americans are filling those jobs and have an incentive to do so because it pays more than welfare for a change. Those jobs have to be done. Americans will pay whatever wage is necessary to motivate people to do those jobs, and that is an absolute fact. Ever wonder how in the world they can find people to clean out portable crappers or septic tanks? Those aren't illegal aliens filling those jobs. They aren't exactly "skilled" labor positions either. They aren't any more or less desirable than scrubbing toilets or picking peaches except that they pay much more, therefore someone, will fill the job. It's called free enterprise. And it's economically more sound than allowing a certain class to come in illegally, and undercut taxpaying citizens from jobs that would otherwise pay more. Everything has a way of balancing itself out.

Wed Jul 26, 09:20:00 PM  
Blogger mistyforeverlost said...

It's called Unions and the low man on the totem pole gets the crapper scooper. And unions are slowly going to the wayside because what Americans won't do for low wages is being out-sourced to countries where people are willing to work for peanuts because that's all it takes to feed their families.

Let's be realistic Wadical. Unless Americans start to teach their children that work is hard and nothing is owed to them.....the crap jobs that we won't do will either be filled by illegal aliens or outsourced to other countries.

You would have a point if we weren't so wrapped up in "go to college, be a lawyer, doctor, teacher or rocket scientists" theory with our kids whilst handing them everything under the sun so they look cool driving down the street in the mazarati mom and dad paid for. Our kids are spoiled and that leads to a poor work ethics and the attitude that the money is owed them whether they earn it or not.

The work won't stay here.

Wed Jul 26, 09:26:00 PM  
Blogger Wadical said...

Labor unions have nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Why is this phenomenon you speak of supposedly unique to the United States? Does Germany, for example, have a problem with not being able to find citizens to clean their toilets. Do they have an illegal immigration problem? How about Holland, where the avereage work week is 30 hours, and the average lunch break is 2 hours. Can you imagine a more lazy society? Do they have millions of illegal aliens swarming in to fill these toilet scrubbing jobs? Or do they just do with dirty toilets and unpicked tulips? No, someone is doing it.

America has more workaholics than at any other time in its history. People are married to their work. I don't think work ethic has anything to do with this problem. Skilled labor will take skilled jobs. Unskilled labor, likewise will fill unskilled jobs. But if those unskilled jobs don't pay the bills then they'll just take the check that you and I give them each month. The question is not whether Americans would work such low paying jobs. The question is why are these jobs so low paying? If there were no illegal aliens offering to work for pennies on the dollar, those lower paying jobs would simply be higher paying and filled by Americans. I can't imagine that a person who is unskilled and thus unable to find gainful employment who sits on their ass and collects a welfare check from the government would ever be motivated to go work these menial or dirty jobs for less money than welfare pays.

It's not "unions"'s MATH! It's business. It's profit. The job goes to the lowest bidder. Its simply not true that Americans, as a whole, are unwilling to work these jobs. They're just unwilling to work these jobs for less than the free check the Government gives them, and a great deal of the same people can collect that check and make a great deal more by slinging dope on the corner.

Your picture of Americans as being spoiled rich kids who are pushed to be doctors and lawyers simply doesn't jive. I don't know which neighborhood you speak Maserati's where I come from.

Wed Jul 26, 11:28:00 PM  
Blogger Publius said...

Ok, since both of you are sort of new to the whole “Publius is against illegal immigration,” let me help you out here. I won’t be sourcing my information here, but if you wade through past posts you can find it all.

First to you Wadical, Germany has a HUGE illegal immigration problem as does the rest of Europe but their illegals are Muslims. But unlike the US which is one of the last countries to offer birth-right citizenship, the illegals in many of the European countries are illegal and their children are illegal and their children are illegal. Some of this has changed with the European Union as their entire immigration system has been screwed up, but many of these illegals in Europe are from Turkey which is not an EU country. Having spend time in Germany last year, I have stayed in a majority Turkish neighborhood in Frankfurt, and these people were not citizens but instead of working the low-skilled jobs they often ran their own businesses or drove taxis - I thought I would need to know German to ride in a taxi in Germany, but Turkish would have been a lot more helpful. Italy’s new Prime Minister is encouraging illegal immigration and wants to grant them amnesty because Italy along with much of Europe has a negative population growth, and as the population gets older and as they are not use to hard work with their socialist work systems, they need to the illegal labor. The difference between European illegal immigrants and US illegal immigrants, is that in the US the illegal immigrants know that once they have a child here who then becomes a citizen they most likely will not be deported because the government will not separate families, and once the child reaches the age of 18 he can petition the government to make his family citizens including parents, brothers and sisters, and grandparents. And this is if the government doesn’t outright grant them all amnesty. In essence, with our immigration system there was the possibility that the illegal immigrants would eventually assimilate into society, the problem now being that because there are so many of them, they are creating their own society within this country. In Europe the same it true, but they create their own immigrant neighborhoods which is much more dangerous in Europe because these neighborhoods are often Muslim and with the illegals remaining a permanent underclass of essentially illegal guestworkers, they are often young and angry. Think of the French riots and the London tunnel bombings.
Also, if we left it up to the market alone, most jobs would go oversees. I saw on Lou Dobbs on Tuesday, than factory workers in China make between 15 and 30 cents and hour. How can American factory workers compete with those slave wages?

Misty, now for you. You do have some valid points, that children in American are taught that they should strive for more than minimum wage and low skilled jobs. But, not everyone can be a doctor or lawyer. You have to go to school for it, and thankfully you have to be smart enough to be one; not everyone has the money to go to college and then medical school. In addition, with so many people in this country going to college, they are better skilled than to say clean toilets or mow lawns; that doesn’t mean they are lazy or that they don’t work hard, but there is a difference between working long hours at a desk and working long hours in a field. But, nearly 30% of all kids are now dropping out of High School, and 50% of all Hispanic and Black kids are dropping out of high school, so there are plenty of people in this country who lack the skills for work other than in our low-skilled positions. So if these jobs are all being taken by illegal immigrants who will work for minimum wage or less, than they have no other option but Welfare. Show me where you can live on $5.15 an hour. Yes, some people do it, but why work so hard for nothing when you don’t have to work at all and stay on Welfare. So if there were not illegal immigrants here, and as the work has to be done, the wages would increase and be more attractive to those who would otherwise be on Welfare. And the scare tactic of “our country would be ruined if all the illegals disappeared tomorrow,” is ridiculous. In 1986, 5 million illegal immigrants were eventually granted amnesty by the then Comprehensive Immigration Reform Bill, and now we have between 13 and 20. It took 20 years to get this new wave of illegal immigrants, and even if the entire federal, state, and local government apparatus completely turned their attention to deporting every illegal immigrant out there, it would still take years. Remember, over 8,000 new illegal immigrants come to this country every day.

An easier solution would be to raise the minimum wage to a living wage of $8.50 or more an hour. This would be a dramatic increase in the minimum wage but it would provide an opportunity for low-skilled Americans to earn a wage they would live on rather than being on Welfare. Prices would temporarily go up, but technology would eventually catch-up to lower the costs for some companies, or companies would have to lower their profits to keep their prices competitive. I think of the $400 million retirement package the head of Exxon got this year as an example of how companies can cut costs to make profits. But there are already a lot of jobs being done by illegal immigrants that pay well above minimum wage like construction where you can make $10 or more an hour. Problem is that we need construction workers because so many new homes are being built, especially for people buying a second home – thank you President Bush for your tax cut to the rich. The other problem is that Congress keeps rejecting a minimum wage increase because big business doesn’t want it and since they also want cheap illegal labor, now you see where the problem lies.

There are numerous solutions to the immigration issue, and none of them are wanted by big business. That is why it is up to the average citizen to speak up and speak out on the problem. The problem is that there are too few making any noise, and the other side has a lot of money and even more influence. That is why groups like NumbersUSA are so important, or, I would encourage you to visit both.

I’ll let you two mull that over for a bit.

Thu Jul 27, 04:17:00 AM  
Blogger mistyforeverlost said...

You make very valid points and I will fully admit my view is tainted by what I see here in my own little section of the world. My husband is in construction, he has a 19year old unskilled laborer working for him that makes $15 an hour. The boy does not want to show up to work, he does not want to work when he is there, leaves early, etc. And yet...he complains when the paycheck is low.

Our local McDonalds is hiring at $9 an hour. They have a hard time keeping employees because they don't want to work the hours or they don't want to wash the floors or they don't want to scrub the toilets. Or their parents simply will not let them because it is "beneath them."

I have a friend who works in a Mill, he has had problems keeping employees at $9 an hour. He ended up hiring *legal* immigrants for a few months in attempt to get some work done because he was sick and tired of paying people to take lunch breaks.

My nieghbor has 6 guys working for him anywhere from $8.50 to $12.00 an hour, depending on their experiance and skill. If he isn't around all they do is sit around and do nothing. They see him pull up and BAM...they are all working hard.

yes, we do make it easy (welfare) for people to not work. But I honestly do not think that America is willing to step up as a whole and DO the jobs properly and with value and ethics. I conceed that they will be more willing to take the job if wages across the US were stepped up. But that doesn't mean it will be done with any sort of ethic.

It starts in the home and that just isn't something I am seeing on a daily basis. Your experiance may tell you otherwise.

Thu Jul 27, 12:45:00 PM  
Blogger Publius said...

Well Misty, I do think we all have different experiences and these different experiences give us different perspectives. I understand the logic behind your points and I agree with them too; there are a lot of lazy Americans and there are a lot of Americans who think they can be rich and famous and won’t do work that they deem beneath them.
My perspective is different because I come from a family of coal miners and military people until my parents’ generation, but we have a very close-knit family so I know what they had to go through growing up poor, without running water in the house, and with the mine at the end of the street. I on the other hand was afforded opportunities that were not available to my parents and definitely not to my grandparents. I have a Bachelor’s Degree and a Master’s Degree, so doing manual labor is not so much beneath me as it is a waste of the thousands of dollars and countless hours of schooling I went through to get those degrees. But, I have waited tables where we mopped the floors and cleaned the bathrooms after a shift. I have worked in a warehouse for a summer job where I was paid $7.50 an hour to move furniture. And I have held other jobs where I would have to take out the trash and clean bathrooms. I did not want to do it, but I did. Once again, our unique experiences give us unique perspectives.
The problem with illegal immigration is that if we don’t put a stop to it, the problem will never go away and only get worse. As I said, we had 5 million illegals that were granted amnesty from the 1986 amnesty legislation and now we have somewhere between 13 and 20 million more. By the way 3 of the 19 September 11th Hijackers were granted amnesty in the 1986 legislation. If we make them all citizens and don’t put a stop to it, we will just need 20 million more to take the jobs that they would no longer do. It would be an endless cycle of a permanent underclass. You can’t have the rich living on top of the hill in their gated communities and the poor fighting over the scraps before after too long that poor underclass will rise up.

Thu Jul 27, 06:57:00 PM  
Blogger mistyforeverlost said...

I agree, I don't know what the answer would be though. Wish I knew..something to chew on I guess.

I understand it would be "waste" of your education to work these jobs now...but apparently, you weren't afraid to work them before and I have a sneaky feeling that if push ever came to shove and that was the means of feeding your family, you would work them again. And while you were working them, you would do it well even if it is "beneath" you (the "" is lack of better wording).

I just don't see that anymore. The worth ethics. It needs to be there even if it's not the most pleasant of jobs.

Thu Jul 27, 07:15:00 PM  
Blogger Publius said...

People learn work ethic; it is not something people are born with. No one wants to work so it has to be ingrained in them and that starts with the parents. The other problem is that we as a society are doing a disservice to our children by teaching them they are all special and they can do anything and be anything they want because they can’t. Not everyone can be in the NFL or be an actor or musician. That is not everyone’s destiny.
I was raised with somewhat of a work ethic. I don’t want to work hard, but I will. My work ethic though comes from being in a close family where I knew what my parents had to do to give me the opportunities they did, and I know what their parents gave them, and I know what my great-grandparents did for my grandparents. Your family is more than just those who live under your roof, but kids these days know or care very little for who and what got them to where they are.

Fri Jul 28, 11:24:00 PM  

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