Protect and Defend

Welcome to my blog, Protect and Defend. You don’t have to understand me. You only have to agree with me. I can live with losing the good fight, but I can not live with not fighting that good fight at all. - Publius

Saturday, June 17, 2006

White People

Why aren’t White People proud to be white?
I am not talking about a “If they got BET we should have WET,” and I am not talking about the “If they got a Black Miss America Pageant we should have a White Miss America Pageant.”
But, if you look at Congress with the recent allegations against Congressman Jefferson that he accepted bribes or if you look at Congresswoman McKinney who hit a Capital Hill Police Officer, after both occurrences, the Congressional Black Caucus came out and supported both Congressmen. After the Duke rape allegation, the Black Panthers held a rally in Durham. In the Duke rape case, the accused were all white and protests were held outside of the house where the rape allegedly occurred by mostly white people.
During the recent immigration rallies you had legal Hispanic citizens protesting with illegal Hispanic aliens as a sign of solidarity. Hispanics who were citizens were not protesting for rights they already have but for rights for people who looked or talked like they do.
There are numerous Muslim Anti-Defamation Leagues that have arisen since 9-11, and Islamic schools have begun to show up all over the country.
Groups like the NAACP, La Raza, Casa de Maryland, the Black Panthers, etc all show support and pride in their racial/ethnic backgrounds. But, there are no such groups for whites. There is a Black History Month, Hispanic History Month, and Asian History Month, but no month to show pride in White/European Heritage.
Is being white bad? Can white people not show pride in being white without being perceived as racists? Why can’t white people come together for a cause like other racial and ethnic groups? White people can claim to be a redneck and in doing so show support for their particular sub-culture of whites, but even this is looked at with ridicule by both whites and non-whites as if being a redneck makes you inbred, uneducated, and a racist.

Do whites just not care about other whites with the same passion as other racial and ethnic groups, and if they do are that wrong? Is white pride limited to the Klan and Aryan groups? What the hell is wrong with white people?

Say it with me, I am white and I am proud.

42 Comments:

Blogger quakerdave said...

Why are you going here?

"White" people are "proud" of their geographic, ethnic, and/or religious heritage. That's why we have St. Patrick's Day parades, it's why we have off on Columbus Day (even though he was a very bad guy), and it's why I fly the Lion Rampant on Bobby Burns's birthday. We don't need to be "proud" of our Caucasian-ness.

Besides, white people in this country still own most of everything, and still run most of everything, and still control most of everything, and white people still have most of the money and they still make all the rules, and in a corporate-capitalist culture like ours, THAT'S all that counts. Period.

C'mon now.

Sat Jun 17, 10:41:00 PM  
Blogger Publius said...

But QD, that’s my point. St. Patrick’s Day is a Catholic Holiday for the feast of St. Patrick, but it is not a white holiday. And you just took a shot at Columbus. You separated white people into different groups by their geographic, ethnic, and religious characteristics, but there is no celebration of just being White or any group that promotes just Whites.
And white people don’t “own most of everything, and still run most of everything, and still control most of everything, and white people still have most of the money and they still make all the rules” because they are white or have any pride in being white, it is because they were here. Japanese people own, run, and control most of everything in Japan too, but that is because they are in Japan. Would a white pride group be ok in Japan?

Your argument is against white pride and support. Hispanic groups don’t support only other Hispanic who share their same country of origin. The Congressional Black Caucus doesn’t require one religion among its members. Asian History month doesn’t pretend to assume that all Asians come from one country. These groups base their support along racial lines, and yet you advocate doing it along geographic of religious lines. So are black people wrong for supporting other black people who do not share their same religious or geographic background, or is it ok because white people in this country “own most of everything, and still run most of everything, and still control most of everything, and white people still have most of the money and they still make all the rules?”

Sat Jun 17, 11:07:00 PM  
Blogger betmo said...

i guess my question is- and maybe it is naive- why are we still seeing colors, ethnicities, religions, etc- in the 21st century? why can't we be proud people? i understand what you are saying publius, sometimes my mother asks too- it isn't an inherently bad question. i think that white people from europe had pretty much taken over everything for so long and so effectively 'white-ized' things in most of the world- that here in america, especially, the 'minorities' if you will- decided they needed to group to have any say. hence, many of these groups sprang from the civil rights movement. i don't think that we should rely on groups for identity- it is too easy to fall into 'group think' and mob rule. it also isolates other 'groups' and sets the scenario for bigotry and prejudice. we somehow have to move forward and look at people as people and not as members of a group. not easy to do when you are a member of a group.

be proud of who you are as a person- and really nothing else matters.

Sun Jun 18, 12:08:00 AM  
Blogger Truth-Pain said...

...ok, now that I've gotten up from laughing for the last 5 minutes I can say something reasonably intellectual.

First, all 3 of you have valid points and honor is due. It is rare to find a tri-fecta of opinions diverging from the other yet sharing the prism of reason.

I do agree with Publius though... Whites are pretty gun-shy in the ethnicity dept. (sorry for the gun pun QD, but we are in Pubs domain after all). I wrote a tongue-in-sarcasm bit last month called "white man's burden"... more of less following Publius' train of thought, although with much less seriousness.... and I got seriously hammered! Some of the comments that were deleted by the authors (but I still got them in my e-mail) were absolutely brutal. I was in serious schock at the level of grenade lobbing coming at me,.. can you say guilt?... I'm serious. It smacked of serious guilt.

Betmo has the purity of final say in this. The day we stop hyphenating everything, African-American, Jewish-American etc., is the day we can began to truly be color blind........

Call me a cynic, but it will never happen in my lifetime.

But what the hell do I know?,... I'm just a New York-born Puerto Rican, Jewish, Italian, Spaniard, French mutt who doesn't even know what the hell it means to be "white"...

Sun Jun 18, 12:46:00 AM  
Blogger Sarah said...

I'm an American, period. I was born an American, I live as an American, and I'll die as an America. Besides, I'm Irish and Dutch with a bit of Cherokee mixed in. Since my mom was adopted, one whole side of my family tree is missing. Who knows? I might not be as "white" as I claim to be.

We need to be like the French - very stubborn about our nationality and not our skin color. Without the snootiness.

Many of these ethnic groups formed when minorities were left out of society based on skin color. These days should be over, and we should work toward a country where people just identify themselves as American.

Quaker Dave has every right to "take a shot" at Columbus. He wasn't the saint people made him out to be. Our history is extremely ugly at times, and I'm not the one to make victory out of it.

Sun Jun 18, 06:05:00 AM  
Blogger Always On Watch said...

Publius,
Interesting essay you have here.

Personally, I have no problem with any group being ethnically proud, so long as that group isn't trying to exterminate other groups.

I am first and foremost an American. But I think the day is coming when saying "I am an American" will become politically incorrect.

My husband and I have never made friends according to race. In fact, I'd have to say that the majority of our friends are of races or ethnicities other than ours. Friendship is a complicated and tenuous relationship--hard to define and hard to explain even the definition of.

As to guilt over my ancestors' bigotry, I've walked away from that. Such guilt amounts to a kind of victimology, and I see no positive outcomes from victimology.

Sun Jun 18, 08:56:00 AM  
Blogger betmo said...

here's the deal- we all need to realize that we can't make up for the 'sins' of our ancestors. we can move forward and make our own way today. that means being proud of who you are as a white male, white female, hispanic male, female, black male,female, etc,etc. we are all americans and we are all people- first and foremost. when we all start viewing each other as sharing the same race- the human race- then we will no longer have bigotry, racism, prejudice- or guilt. it is fine to admire your ancestry- just don't let it get in the way of who you are today.

Sun Jun 18, 10:40:00 AM  
Blogger quakerdave said...

And if we're all so damn "proud" to be "white," how come so many "white" people spend so much time and money trying to be TAN?

Sun Jun 18, 01:59:00 PM  
Blogger quakerdave said...

I really wasn't separating people along geographic or religious lines: my point was that whites already celebrate their heritages, and we really don't need to "celebrate" our skin tone. And if some people need to group themselves to form a power base, on the basis of race or whatever, it's because the dominant culture is denying them access. And in this country, that dominant culture is W-H-I-T-E.

Whites don't need a "month": we have all twelve of them pretty much wrapped up in the history department. The fact that we have to "give" other groups a month so they can get a word in edge-wise should tell you something. And like someone once said, to paraphrase, it sure was nice of us white folks to "give" blacks a month. The fact that it's the shortest month tells you something, too.

And let me say one more thing before I become too intellectually unreasonable. White people don't NEED to express their "pride," because they have the real power in this country, and they always have. (It would be as ridiculous as having a "Heterosexual Pride Parade.") How do I define power? Esay. No white cop has ever stopped me for driving through the "wrong neighborhood" after sundown. No white cop has ever pulled me over for driving "the wrong car." No white sales clerk has ever followed me around a store. No white salesperson has ever asked to see some ID when I make a credit card purchase. You know why? Because I was born into, and have managed to stay in, THE one truly "privileged class" in America. I'm a college educated, middle class WHITE male. That's all the "power" I need.

I am proud of my family. I am proud of my own accomplishments. I am even - sometimes - proud of my country. I don't need anything else to be proud of. "Race" is a social and political construct, anyway, so what's the point?

Sun Jun 18, 02:22:00 PM  
Blogger quakerdave said...

And that was supposed to read *easy*, not *esay*.

Sun Jun 18, 02:23:00 PM  
Blogger el said...

That would be funny if they have a WET program. It sounds more like a porno station.

The damned KKK ruined it for us. Since then they think if we are proud of our race then the logical next step would be to put up burning crosses and to hang people of other races. Maybe in a few years when we get the minority status. Then again, the "Anglos" of Miami still don't get to form a group. Yeah, the KKK scewed us.

Sun Jun 18, 06:38:00 PM  
Blogger Publius said...

I think the problem is the people hear “White Pride” and they think “White Power.” QD seems to argue that there is no need for White pride because whites are in power.
But, I am advocating for the collective though; you take care of your house and I’ll take care of mine, meaning – the government looks out for all of us, but blacks look out for other blacks, Hispanics for other Hispanics, Jews for other Jews, etc, but who is looking out for whites? Not all whites are well off and rich and in power.
With the destruction of the family through both divorce and mobility, there is no support network for whites, no “white community” as it were for whites. Instead whites must rely on the government or open charities rather than on a white community that looks after its own.
I am not talking about whites protesting in the streets in support and/or defense of white people, but I am advocating whites look at other whites not as strangers but brothers and sisters, and brothers and sisters with who they share a common characteristic. There really are only a few ethnic whites anymore and instead the ancestry and heritage of most whites in a collection of European ethnic backgrounds of German, Irish, Italian, etc. I don’t know of another white person who shares my ethnic heritage, but what is wrong with me caring about and caring for my white brother or sister without having to get a family genealogy or having to feel guilty? Is it wrong for me to support another white person simply because they are white? Is it wrong for me to help another white person simply because I can see myself when I look at them? Should I feel guilty because I look at another white person and wonder if their family might be from the same small European village as my family?
Even if you want to make what I consider the ignorant argument that white people control everything, it does not mean that ALL the white people control everything.

Sun Jun 18, 09:39:00 PM  
Blogger betmo said...

perhaps i am not understanding why you can't do this yourself? most groups start from- as you have said- like characteristics. black folks tend to live in black neighborhoods- white folks tend to live in white neighborhoods. groups, gangs, etc spring from that type of neighborhood- especially in poorer neighborhoods. poor people are not hard to find- poor white people are not hard to find. come on up to new york- and i'll show you. set up shop in a poor white neighborhood and they will come to you. if you want to start a feel good white group- then do so. if you want to start any kind of white group- do it. i doubt that you would let naysayers stop you. there are all white clubs here in america- golf courses- and the like- but those folks aren't poor.

Sun Jun 18, 10:01:00 PM  
Blogger Ellie said...

I think you make a very good point. I live in NYC where everything is supposed to be diverse and everyone is supposed to be accepted. However at times it's like a whole bunch of people mixed together who hate each other. A few years ago I used to get "you're white...we hate white people" every other day. once they got to know me it became "we hate all white people but you" but the prejudice was still there. They wouldn't have even talked to me had they not needed my help on something and that's how we got to know each other as friends, not just by skin color.

I agree with betmo that everything should be equal, but our world doesn't seem to work like that. What I hate is how everyone thinks that people are biased against white people. So much of a focus is put on that that they forget white people.

Sun Jun 18, 10:03:00 PM  
Blogger Publius said...

Actually betmo there are no all-white golf clubs anymore because they are not allowed, yes there are some clubs that are all male like Augusta but they don’t have all white members.
But, if I did start an “all-white club” what do you think the reaction would be?
I want to refer you to a scholarly journal article I read in graduate school:
Schultz, D. L. (1993). To reclaim a legacy of diversity: Analyzing the "Political Correctness" debates in higher education. A publication of the National Council for Research on Women, 1-76.

In the article, Schultz (1993) equated a White Student Union at Temple University that opposed affirmative action and promotion of “White Pride,” with raping women and swastikas on school buildings.

Sun Jun 18, 10:12:00 PM  
Blogger quakerdave said...

White people don't look after other white people? Really? Is that all over, or justwhere you live? People who go to church togther don't help each other out when someone loses a job, or when there's a house fire? Kids in the schools in your town don't fundraise? No drop boxes for the Salvation Army or AmVets where you live? No Knights of Columbus there? No Rotarians? No Hibernians? No Shriners? No other mainly "white" organizations? Wow - tell me where you live so I don't move there. Or have my car break down there.

Let's operate from this idea, first and foremost: we all have a "common characteristic." It's called being human. I don't need or want "white people" to look after me or mine. If my son needs a kidney transplant, I'm not asking the "race" of the donor before I accept. When I wrote checks for Katrina victims, I didn't write "for whites only" on the memo line. It's this line of thinking that divides all of us, and it should stop. EXCEPT for the fact that, again, whites are the dominant culture. Whites do control most of everything. We as white people need to recognize white privilege for what it is, and then see that as a starting point for healing the racial divide. We can't get away with saying "I like everybody, white, black, brown, green... I don't see color." I DO see color. And I recognize that my color effects all the interactions I may have with people who are NOT my color. So let's start from that point, and let's move on.

Why am I going to waste time crowing about being "proud" of being white? I'm proud that the people in my town look after all the other people of my town because they are people and neighbors, not because they have or lack a certain degree of mellonin.

As a white man, want to know what I'm proud of? This: one of my white ancestors was the first attorney general of Pennsylvania, who wrote the first law outlawing the buying, selling, ownership, or return of slaves in that state. THAT I am proud of.

el: The Klan "screwed us"? You're kidding, right? That was sarcasm?

Try the 300 years of slavery that came before the Klan. We could start there, I think.

I'm done ranting now. Peace, all.

Sun Jun 18, 11:14:00 PM  
Blogger 13 Fox said...

Lol, dude. Today's society, because of all the groups you mentioned, doesn't allow whit people to run around and talk about white pride. They all call that the KKK, whether it is or isn't.

I think with the running over of the Indians, the enslaving of blacks, the taking properties over from Mexicans and Spaniards and the Nuking of the Japanese, it may be time we realize it may not be all too cool,to run around in public being proud of being "white."

Sun Jun 18, 11:40:00 PM  
Blogger Truth-Pain said...

At the end of the day, we all veer towards that which mimics closest to what we are. We all have inherent biases and prejudices,... we make choices every day and every hour based on natural and genetically-coded preferences. This notion of a color-blind society is for an episode of Star Trek,..not today's homosapien.

Mon Jun 19, 12:05:00 AM  
Blogger Jonny said...

Publius:

Thanks for your visit to my site and introducing me to yours. I'll keep watching your blog for more information; and hey, if you want something really grand to write about then research whose supporting Chris Cannon (REP of Utah) for re-election. Yup, none other than Tony Yapias - Democratic Chair of the Hispanic Caucus. If Illegals are voting for Chris, I certainly am not!

Mon Jun 19, 12:53:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Quaker Dave pretty much nails it when he says that we don't need a "white Pride" movement, because whites already have real power. I like the comparison to a "Heterosexual Pride Parade." When you're in the majority, you don't need an established support group, because it's already there.

Mon Jun 19, 10:26:00 AM  
Blogger Carnivore said...

Publius,
An intresting read. I think that your assertation that whites fear doing this because of being labeled as racist is correct. However, is this also not the same as with other "colored" movements and pride days, months whatever?
My thoughts:
One can be proud of the chemical composition in their skin... what the true pride comes from is not this color level, but soley fromt he character level within this drapery of cells. My conservative thoughts about labels and ethinicty are simple... stop focusing in on the color and race (with the exception of medical treatments for this does have an effect) and look at the individual's character. This to me is more important than what a person looks like. Physical attributes and pride is just bogus idiologies at best. A man with a predominatly andes mountain heritage will be disregarded as a lower member of society in US due to his skin tone... and the same for person of anglo heritage in the Andes as well.
the reson being is simple... we as humans are sick perverted animals that look at appearance rathern than looking at deeds and character.

Pride the physical sense is nothing more vanity to me... I am proud of my accomplishments and deeds... my relationships.... my family.... not my skin tone for this means nothing to who I am than if I was a color of any one of the various space creature portrayed in the Star Wars movies.

Mon Jun 19, 01:16:00 PM  
Blogger quakerdave said...

It was a "Star Trek" episode, one of the best. It had, if I remember correctly, Frank "The Riddler" Gorshin (sp?) and the guy from "Here Come the Brides." One alien was white on the left and black on the right, and his foe/enemy was vice-versa, color-wise. They couldn't even remember why they were at war. Very progressive episode, that one.

Mon Jun 19, 02:23:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh and Publius, just to educate you to more accurate recitation of 60s and 70s funk classics, the correct paraphrasing would be "Say it loud, I'm white and Im proud"

Mon Jun 19, 06:36:00 PM  
Blogger Publius said...

Anon, I don’t think it was a funk classic but a James Brown song that you are quoting, and I don’t think James Brown was funk, but I might be wrong there.

Mon Jun 19, 10:12:00 PM  
Blogger Publius said...

Republican Vet, the English, Spaniards, Portuguese, Dutch, Germans, etc. all “ran over” the Indians, but it is convenient to forget how many scalps the Indians took as well.
The land we took from the Spanish, Florida, was land they gave to us as a concession of the Spanish-American War. The land in the South West was Spanish-controlled for more than 300 years, then it was French, and then it was in the hands of Mexico for less than 15 years, although most of the land was self-governed and claimed by Mexico is name only.
As for nuking the Japanese I guess it is easy to forget that they attacked Pearl Harbor first, the Bataan Death March, and that Truman was told it would take over 1 million American soldiers’ lives to take the island and end the war.

Mon Jun 19, 10:21:00 PM  
Blogger Publius said...

QD, you mention “mainly ‘white’ organization” but name me an all-white organization? I can name you plenty of all-non-white organizations that look out for “their own.”
And what if we call it European Pride would that make it better? It is no longer about the color of my skin and how much melatonin anyone has, but the fact that my heritage is European of many European cultures and many people in this country share some of those Old World heritages?

I get the feeling that there is an argument that white pride is American pride because America is dominated by white people, or that whites don’t need to have pride in themselves because they can have pride in being American. But then white pride is American Pride and white culture is American Culture. This then allows non-whites to have pride in their culture and heritage because they are excluded from white culture, or in this case American Culture, unless they want to be sell-outs. Does a color-blind society mean we all have to share as one culture and be as one, if America is dominated by white culture wouldn’t that mean that everyone would have to share and be a part of that Dominant Culture?

This country is made up of many cultures and people and of many cultures that I have no connection to. Can I only enjoy those cultures different from my own? Can I not take pride in my culture and bond with those who are of the same culture?
But, if I can celebrate my culture and take pride in my culture, then am I limited to my exact culture based upon my geographic location, religion, and ancestral heritage? I am of European decent and my culture and ancestral heritage is European and there should be nothing wrong with embracing and celebrating that and taking pride in that with others like me.

Mon Jun 19, 10:43:00 PM  
Blogger Sarah said...

Publius, if you want to take pride in "white" people destroying women and children, go for it. I won't stop you.

Tue Jun 20, 01:26:00 AM  
Blogger Sarah said...

Plus, I thought American was suppose to have the moral upper hand when it comes to international affairs.

Gee, guess we're not as Christian as we pride ourselves on being.

If we really followed the teaching of Jesus Christ, we wouldn't make excuses for the bombing of innocent civilians.

It's all a sad joke, calling ourselves Christian. We are more interested in being savage men and playing war with innocent people as our pawns.

Tue Jun 20, 01:32:00 AM  
Blogger The Plumber said...

Gee Sarah,

Ol Whitey has quite a monopoly on abuse of women and war, doesn't he? I'll remember that when the next Muslim woman is stoned to death for being raped. I'll think about that next time I read about yet another genocide in Africa.

Sure, history has it's horrors, but I'd not trade Whitey's greatest triumph, 19th Century liberalism, for any other ideology previously or currently. No other ideology has liberated more people than that born of centuries of debates and wars of...you guessed it, Whitey!

That might also explain why the rest of the world is so eager to risk their lives to come to the US or Europe.

Nice jab at Christians too. They are even more monolithic than Whitey.

Re: the post
Most white people have evolved beyond seeing people based on color (except leftists). I personally view organizations based on skin color (NAACP, La Raza, etc.) as blatently racist.

Tue Jun 20, 02:40:00 AM  
Blogger Sarah said...

Plumber, I'm talking specifically about the United States. Please do not take my post out of its context.

I'll also thank you to drop your personal attacks on my post, or do you just use that as an argument because you don't have a real opinion?

Tue Jun 20, 03:34:00 AM  
Blogger Sarah said...

"Nice jab at Christians too. They are even more monolithic than Whitey."

Yes - I am making a CORRECT jab at our lousy excuse for a "Christian" nation.

Don't call yourself a Christian unless you are willing to live the words of The Bible. But yet, you see NO problem lumping together all people who follow the religion of Islam. Who is being the hypocrite here?

My conversation with you is over, because it's obvious you cannot see my concerns for what they are, and you see it fit to ruthlessly turn around my arguments with your irrational thought process.

Or did I hit a nerve?

Tue Jun 20, 03:38:00 AM  
Blogger Sarah said...

"Re: the post
Most white people have evolved beyond seeing people based on color (except leftists)"

Seriously, grow up. I can tell by the content of your post that you are an extremely immature person who cannot see past politics for the reality of the situation.

Not only is your point dead wrong, it is foolish. There is no such thing as a "color-blind" society. There never has been, and there will never be one.

See, Publius can see beyond politics. He can hold his own views and still show respect for the people who visit his blog. Maybe you should extend that courtesy, or are you too much of a selfish child to do so?

But I will admit, you play the "right-wing" role well. It's very playbook, with no original thought going on. I commend you.

Tue Jun 20, 03:44:00 AM  
Blogger Sarah said...

Furthermore, I am not even a liberal. You made a false assumption. You jumped all over me because you got insulted by my opinions - they did not mesh with you political beliefs.

"No other ideology has liberated more people than that born of centuries of debates and wars of...you guessed it, Whitey!"

It depends on your definition of "liberation."

"That might also explain why the rest of the world is so eager to risk their lives to come to the US or Europe."

Really? Is that why Muslims want to impose Islam into European law? The only reason people want to come here is for money and jobs. End of argument. And you'll notice most immigrants have developed their own separate communities - gee, they must love our customs them, right?

Tue Jun 20, 03:49:00 AM  
Blogger Sarah said...

Ha, "Mental Mastubator."

Yeah, real classy and intelligent guy.

Tue Jun 20, 03:52:00 AM  
Blogger Sarah said...

By the way, here is a good list of all the good things we have done in the name of Christianity:

http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm

So yeah Plumber, take great pride in your death list. I'll take the side of the words of Jesus Christ, who preached all sorts of wacky liberal ideas you think are foolish.

I'm sure you have no problem ignoring the teachings of The Bible that do not mesh with your political beliefs, right?

Tue Jun 20, 03:58:00 AM  
Blogger Alec said...

Oh the irony of this discussion...

1) Anyone who talks about genocide in Africa and somehow believes that the African genocides are unrelated to "white" colonialism needs serious history lessons.

2) Anyone bitching about Islamic approaches to sexual mores should take another look at our own homegrown religious fanatics. They'd be just as bad, given the chance.

3) Nothing wrong with pride in the aspects of your culture worthy of esteem. For example, I am very proud that Western culture produced the Enlightenment. They clearly did not always live up to that ideal, however.

4) There are plenty of organizations not based on "race" per se, but that seem to support policies that disproportionately favor one particular "race" in the U.S. While you may oppose the NAACP for ideological reasons, nothing about that organization is remotely racist. Until they proclaim the racial and/or genetic superiority of racial minorities, your argument is a losing one.

5) Any "jabs" at "Christians" are usually not jabs at all Christians, only socially conservative Christians. This pales in comparison to the "jabs" these same groups (i.e., Focus on the Family, Christian Coalition, etc.) engage in. The "gay agenda" sound familiar? Or perhaps the "abortion holocaust" is a better analogy?

I could go on, but this topic is so ridden with bias that has become almost counterproductive at this point.

Tue Jun 20, 04:22:00 AM  
Blogger Publius said...

Sarah, white people are not the only people who have killed women and children in war or genocide. Think about what is going on in Somalia right now and the number of women being raped and killed and children being killed and there are no white people involved there. You have to take the good and the bad with your people and your history.

My comment to Republican Vet was that it is easy to attack those in the past when you have hindsight or you know what history tells us about the time. But, if you actually put yourself in the place of those who are long since dead and look at the situation through their eyes and their fears it becomes a lot harder to crucify them or their actions.
But, I still support Truman for dropping two atomic bombs. Remember during WW II there were not smart bombs or laser guided bombs and instead both sides used carpet bombing; look at some photos of Frankfurt in 1939 and then again in 1945 and you will see what I mean. Or look at London and then Blitz by the Germans and think about how many innocent people died there too. The two atomic bombs were the same as carpet bombing but quicker, and these two atomic bombs probably meant that my grandfathers never had to storm the rocky and virtually impenetrable Japanese shoreline and instead they lived to have my parents and then me.

Finally, I am not a WASP, I am a WISC, or a White Irish Slovak Catholic, and my family and my ancestors are not responsible for the “atrocities” that some have mentioned here. My family came to this country to get away from either the Kaiser or Hitler and then got drafted to have to go back to Europe to fight the Kaiser or Hitler. But, I am still proud of them, my family, my ancestors, and my heritage.

Tue Jun 20, 01:07:00 PM  
Blogger The Plumber said...

Sarah,

I'm not a Christian. Neither did I say, or imply (unlike you vis a vis Americans) that all Muslims are evil. I did not personally attack you, I ridiculed your beliefs, and rightfully so.

The last part of my original comment was directed at Publius' post, not your comment, that's why I labeled it. I didn't call you a Leftist, but as Col. Bo Gritz says, "You know you're over the target when you start catching flack."

I'll not personally insult you on another's blog, but if you feel like getting slapped around (ideologically, of course), you can visit me any time. I never delete comments or commentators, no matter how wrong or rude they are. I even welcome personal attacks, they make me chuckle.

It'd probably be best however for a nice girl like you to stay away from a bad apple like me.

Tue Jun 20, 03:27:00 PM  
Blogger Truth-Pain said...

.... So I went to a blog for a little banter.... and a full on brawl breaks out!...

And some people blindly and naively think race is not a push-button issue...

Pub, c'mon now... lets get back on track with an illegal immigration or a constitutional diatribe... this race talk it seriously hurting my feelings, making me see the guilt of my mother's "whitey" Italian-Jewish ancestry, making me re-live the Spanish colonialism of my father's beloved Puerto Rico, making me question the "olive-ness" of my skin,... who am I?.... Captain Kirk please, beam us all up!

Tue Jun 20, 11:52:00 PM  
Blogger quakerdave said...

Anybody who quotes a wingnut like "Colonel" Bo Gritz should be ignored, or deleted. If you don't know why, google the name and find out.

Hint: He's located in the same aisle as bad apples like David Duke.

Define "white culture," please.

Just so I know where we're coming from. If "Black culture" means, say, jazz or hip-hop, then what's "white culture"? The Celtic music festival I might be attending this weekend? I'm still not clear on what you mean, beyond what I already said. There is no "white culture" that exists as some all-encompassing monolithic thingamajig, anymore than there's an all-inclusive Native culture (every indigenous nation had its own language, etc.).

So are we really talking JUST about "White pride"? And if that's the case, why bother?

And dropping nukes on Japan was a political act as much as a military action, designed to send a signal to the Soviets. While the effects of the bomb lasted much longer (and led to the Cold War and nearly the end of the world), we actually killed more Japanese (mostly civilians) when we fire-bombed 200 Japanese cities and towns during the last two years of the war.

We might want to take THAT brawl someplace else.

Wed Jun 21, 10:59:00 AM  
Blogger Publius said...

Russia was supposed to help with Japan but they were not, the U.S. was more or less going it alone with the help of the Australians and Chiang Kai-shek. Japan has a high shore line and a rocky coast, not sandy beaches like Normandy. The Japanese were determined to not lose that war and women and children were put in gun turrets along the coast to defend against an eventual American invasion which was part of the Island-hopping strategy. To invade Japan and put down the Emperor would have cost the lives of a million American soldiers. I put the lives of my grandfathers and great-uncles over the lives of people from another country that attacked us first.

QD, before I can define “white culture” for you, I have to ask you then if there is no such thing as “black culture,” or “Asian culture,” or “Hispanic culture,” unless you are going to go back to the argument that there is only a great and varied American culture in an American country dominated in all aspects by whites, and thus a white culture.

Wed Jun 21, 08:26:00 PM  
Blogger quakerdave said...

Nope. I think there is a national culture in this country, one that is created from all the varied elements therein. White musicians play jazz. Black musicians play European classical music. Black musicians borrow from Latin music. One Latina poet whose work I'm fond of writes sonnets (a European poetic form).

I don't define American culture as White. Or Black. Or Brown. Maybe that's why we're never going to agree on this. Time to move on.

Wed Jun 21, 09:57:00 PM  

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